"The Time of the End"

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DrPatti (1342 posts) 08-21-01, 07:18 PM (GMT) "The Time of the End" Ted: Daniel 12:9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end. Here the scripture plainly says that the secrets revealed in symbols to Daniel were seal up until the time of the end. And I have told you three times that Jesus and the disciples proclaimed that they were living in the "time of the end." Jesus's accomplished salvific work ushered in the "last days." The Scripture says that the Spirit was poured out abundantly at Pentecost. Peter calls this magnificent phenomenon a fulfillment of the prophecy of Joel: Acts 2:16 No, this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel: 17 "`In the last days, God says, I will pour out my Spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your young men will see visions, your old men will dream dreams. 18 Even on my servants, both men and women, I will pour out my Spirit in those days, and they will prophesy. Many Christians believe that the "last days" are yet approaching. But Jesus and His disciples as well saw themselves living in the last days. Hebrews 1:1 In the past God spoke to our forefathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2 but in these last days (eschaton days; this is the root of the word "eschatology" which is the theology of last day, end time events) he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe. 3 The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven. Hebrews 9:26 Then Christ would have had to suffer many times since the creation of the world. But now he has appeared once for all at the end of the ages to do away with sin by the sacrifice of himself. The KJV reads: For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself. 1 John 2:18 Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. This is how we know it is the last hour. 1 Peter 1:18 You know that you were ransomed from the futile ways inherited from your ancestors, not with perishable things like silver or gold, 19 but with the precious blood of Christ, like that of a lamb without defect or blemish. 20 He was destined before the foundation of the world, but was revealed at the end of the ages for your sake 21 Through him you believe in God, who raised him from the dead and glorified him, and so your faith and hope are in God. 1 Peter 4:6 For this is the reason the gospel was preached even to those who are now dead, so that they might be judged according to men in regard to the body, but live according to God in regard to the spirit. 7 The end of all things is near. Therefore be clear minded and self-controlled so that you can pray. Jesus Himself declared: Matthew 16:28 I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom." And it was repeated in two other Gospels: Mark 9:1 And he said to them, "I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the kingdom of God come with power." Luke 9:27 I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the kingdom of God." The kingdom of heaven was advancing "forcefully" in John the Baptist's day. Matthew 11:12, 13 From the days of John the Baptist until now, the kingdom of heaven has been forcefully advancing, and forceful men lay hold of it. For all the Prophets and the Law prophesied until John. Luke 16:16 Luke 16 Luke 16:15-17 "The Law and the Prophets were proclaimed until John. Since that time, the good news of the kingdom of God is being preached, and everyone is forcing his way into it. Matthew 4:17 From that time on Jesus began to preach, "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is near." Luke 17:20, 21 Once, having been asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, Jesus replied, "The kingdom of God does not come with your careful observation, nor will people say, `Here it is,' or `There it is,' because the kingdom of God is within you." Luke 23:42 Then he said, "Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom." 43 Jesus answered him, "I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise." John 18:36 Jesus said, "My kingdom is not of this world. If it were, my servants would fight to prevent my arrest by the Jews. But now my kingdom is from another place." The kingdom of heaven came when Jesus secured our eternal redemption once for all. The time of the end began when Jesus pronounced, "It is finished." Revelation 1:3 Blessed is the one who reads the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear it and take to heart what is written in it, because the time is near. 4 John, To the seven churches in the province of Asia: Grace and peace to you from him who is, and who was, and who is to come, and from the seven spirits before his throne, 5 and from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth. To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood, 6 and has made us to be a kingdom and priests to serve his God and Father--to him be glory and power for ever and ever! Amen. And for those who ask: Aren't these times lasting a little long? 2 Peter 3:8 But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day. The kingdom of heaven has come; we are living in the end times, just as the disciples were. Christ was victorious, and He has secured salvation forever for those who trust in Him. He is now enthroned as King of kings and Lord of lords. All things have become new. Just because we cannot see it with our fleshly eyes does not mean that it is not so. Faith is believing in things we cannot see. Jesus reigns! And we are His heirs! "It is done." May God lead us daily into a greater understanding of His great love for us and the full efficacy of His salvation in Jesus Christ. Grace and peace, Patti   Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

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searching (39 posts) 08-28-01, 12:22 PM (GMT) 40. "RE: The Time of the End" Hello, It's me again You said ( well, the bible said) Matthew 16:28 I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom." every time I read this passage I think it means that Jesus is in his kingdom now because they (the ones he was talking to)have since died. a little help please.........This confuses me, I can't get a handle on what kingdom he is talking about, I have been taught that when he returns his kingdom will be on the new earth and this is not to happen untill he returns. Is this passage term "kingdom" the same one that is talk about every where else? Forgive my stupidity, I really get confused over this. Thanks Christy   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

DrPatti (1342 posts) 08-28-01, 02:22 PM (GMT) 42. "RE: The Time of the End" Matthew 16:28 I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom." every time I read this passage I think it means that Jesus is in his kingdom now because they (the ones he was talking to)have since died. You got it, Christy! Revelation 1:3 Blessed is the one who reads the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear it and take to heart what is written in it, because the time is near. 4 John, To the seven churches in the province of Asia: Grace and peace to you from him who is, and who was, and who is to come, and from the seven spirits<1> before his throne, 5 and from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth. To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood, 6 and has made us to be a kingdom and priests to serve his God and Father--to him be glory and power for ever and ever! Amen. a little help please.........This confuses me, I can't get a handle on what kingdom he is talking about, I have been taught that when he returns his kingdom will be on the new earth and this is not to happen untill he returns. Is this passage term "kingdom" the same one that is talk about every where else? There are those who do not see Christ's work of salvation complete. They make salvation, and even "bringing in His kingdom" contingent upon the believers and not on Christ. But the New Testament clearly states, as you aptly pointed out, that Christ has come into His kingdom. Otherwise those words of Christ (and all the other texts above) would be false. Revelation 5 describes Christ's triumphal entry into heaven upon His ascension: 1 Then I saw in the right hand of him who sat on the throne a scroll with writing on both sides and sealed with seven seals. 2 And I saw a mighty angel proclaiming in a loud voice, "Who is worthy to break the seals and open the scroll?" 3 But no one in heaven or on earth or under the earth could open the scroll or even look inside it. 4 I wept and wept because no one was found who was worthy to open the scroll or look inside. 5 Then one of the elders said to me, "Do not weep! See, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, HAS TRIUMPHED. He is able to open the scroll and its seven seals." 6 Then I saw a Lamb, looking as if it had been slain, standing in the center of the throne, encircled by the four living creatures and the elders. He had seven horns Horns represent power in Bibical symbolism. He had seven horns. Seven means perfect or complete. This is a symbol of the omnipotence of the Lamb of God .... and seven eyes, Eyes indicate knowledge, foresight, understanding. Thus, the Lamb of God is omniscient also. ... which are the seven spirits of God sent out into all the earth. 7 He came and took the scroll from the right hand of him who sat on the throne. 8 And when he had taken it, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb. Each one had a harp and they were holding golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints. If the bowls of incense were the "prayers of the saints," they would be meaningless if the saints were already in heaven at this time. 9 And they sang a new song: "You are worthy to take the scroll and to open its seals, because you were slain, and with your blood you purchased men for God from every tribe and language and people and nation. 10 You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to serve our God, and they will reign on the earth." For those who would like to put this in the distant future (from John that is) this is exactly what was said in Revelation 1 also. Rev. 5:11 Then I looked and heard the voice of many angels, numbering thousands upon thousands, and ten thousand times ten thousand. They encircled the throne and the living creatures and the elders. 12 In a loud voice they sang: "Worthy is the Lamb, who was slain, to receive power and wealth and wisdom and strength and honor and glory and praise!" 13 Then I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all that is in them, singing: "To him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb be praise and honor and glory and power, for ever and ever!" 14 The four living creatures said, "Amen," and the elders fell down and worshiped. Rev. 11:15 The seventh angel sounded his trumpet, and there were loud voices in heaven, which said: "The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ, and he will reign for ever and ever." Revelation 12:9 The great dragon was hurled down--that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him. 10 Then I heard a loud voice in heaven say: "Now have come the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God, and the authority of his Christ. For the accuser of our brothers, who accuses them before our God day and night, has been hurled down. 11 They overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony; they did not love their lives so much as to shrink from death. John 16:7 But I tell you the truth: It is for your good that I am going away. Unless I go away, the Counselor will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you. 8 When he comes, he will convict the world of guilt in regard to sin and righteousness and judgment: 9 in regard to sin, because men do not believe in me; 10 in regard to righteousness, because I am going to the Father, where you can see me no longer; 11 and in regard to judgment, because the prince of this world now stands condemned. John 12:30 Jesus said, "This voice was for your benefit, not mine. 31 Now is the time for judgment on this world; NOW the prince of this world will be driven out. When? 32 But I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to myself." Forgive my stupidity, I really get confused over this. No stupidity at all. Some things are difficult to grasp, especially if it goes against everything you have been taught. It is true, most people do not think that Christ's work was either fully accomplished or all-sufficient. They are still waiting and looking for the Fulfillment of all things, not knowing that Jesus Christ was He. Don't be hesitant to ask questions. Anything else on your mind? Grace and peace, Patti   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

searching (39 posts) 08-29-01, 01:34 PM (GMT) 43. "RE: The Time of the End" Nope! that should do it concerning that issue, The only other one that has me confused is the trinity thing, what is that? I can find God Head in the bible but not trinity. I believe in Jesus, God and the Holy spirit, I believe that Jesus came in the flesh and was tempted just as we are but overcame. I know that John speaks of the "anti christ's" and that they do not believe that Jesus came in the flesh, that they think he couldn't possibly have been tempted to sin because he wasn't really human. I just don't know what the trinity is (or for that matter the God Head) Thanks Christy   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

DrPatti (1342 posts) 08-29-01, 04:01 PM (GMT) 44. "RE: The Time of the End" Hi, Christy. Please do not be discouraged! Many people have struggled with the concept of the Trinity. Here is something I wrote on another forum concerning the Trinity: Sometimes I am a bit slow at understanding things. I was hitting my forehead with the palm of my hand recently for not realizing before what just dawned on me when I was posting on another forum concerning the Trinity. I have never really given that much thought to the Trinity, just more or less accepted it. I always thought that the main trouble with the doctrine of the Trinity was that people deny the divinity of Christ. This is, of course a big problem, but there is another, more subtle problem that can come of not specifically defining and distinguishing between the different Persons of the Godhead. And I think it is a problem that is rampant in Christendom today, and that is confusing and confounding the work of Jesus with the work of the Holy Spirit. The work of Jesus Christ is a finished, completed, once-for-all, and unrepeatable work of that was accomplished perfectly for us. It was wrought in sinless flesh and is totally untainted by any spot or blemish. We had no part in it; all we can do is to trust in this magnificent saving work. It is this historic work of Jesus Christ alone that saves us. The work of the Holy Spirit is an ongoing, incomplete, and imperfect work (since He is working through sinful flesh). It is not unto salvation, it a gift of salvation. Not only this, but the primary manifestation of the work of the Holy Spirit in the New Testament was the testimony of Jesus. Nowhere in the New Testament do you find believers testifying to their own changed lives because of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. In the New Testament, the main role of the Holy Spirit was to inspire individuals to believe in Jesus Christ and then to facilitate the spread of the Gospel by telling others of the His great saving act for all who believe. You see, salvation is ALL God's work. Jesus accomplished the work of salvation, the Holy Spirit focuses and refocuses us on the work of Jesus Christ. The Holy Spirit never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, NEVER brings the focus to the believer. (Or Himself) NEVER. He gives us the ability to understand that Christ is our salvation; then He gives us the motivation and the courage to tell others about Jesus. I guess what I am really saying here, friends, is that it was brought back to me again today, in yet clearer focus that IT IS ALL ABOUT JESUS. From first to last.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

swill17 (27 posts) 08-30-01, 06:37 AM (GMT) 56. "RE: The Time of the End" Friends, As tmac has shown us (he was prevented from posting by someone who opposes his teachings), more than 60 years after "the kingdom of God has come" according to some here, Christ visited the Apostle John to give him the Revelation. At the beginning of that Revelation it tells us that Christ has come to reveal to John things that must shortly come to pass, or that are near. So now we are a little mixed up here. Dr. Patti tells us that when Christ was still alive, He was saying that the kingdom of God is at hand. I am reading here where Dr. Patti is telling us that the Kingdom of God HAS COME. When did this take place? Christ died on the cross. How come that kingdom did not come even more than 60 years later? At that time we see that the earth was still moving and going about its rounds as today. So then, when EXACTLY did that kingdom come since the death of Christ did not bring it to more than 60 years later? Since all things are fulfilled "IN HIM," how come that fulfillment did not take place at the cross since Christ visited John later? When did that kingdom actually come? When did the Apostles tell us that it has actually come? And who would tell us that this kingdom has come and would quote for us that with the Lord a thousand years is as a day and a day as a thousand? What kind of a kingdom can we be talking about? There is the parable of the wedding (Matthew 22:1-13). Christ talks about a kingdom where everyone had to have on a wedding garment. The time came when one person entered who did not have on a wedding garment. That person was thrust out. The scripture then shows us that without there shall be "wailing and gnashing of teeth." Has that kingdom reached yet? Where is the wailing and gnashing of teeth? Or, we may have to conclude that everyone is in that kingdom. Another good point that was made rests on the question of whether Satan still alive? Does he still put thoughts into your mind? If that is so, and you are in the kingdom, then Satan also is in the kingdom! Ellen White is not alive, but she must also be in the kingdom because she is on certain peoples' minds. I have heard some questions asked here also. The sealed visions of Daniel: when were they unsealed? I see Dr. Patti has told us that they were definitely unsealed at the cross. From every other example I know of, if this were so, there would be mention of the event. In the New Testament entirely we see no mention of the unsealing of the prophecies of Daniel ANYWHERE! The Apostles never mentioned such a revealing, and if you think I speak in error, please show me where I have made a mistake here. So here we are getting a synopsis of questions that are not being answered. If Christ's salvation is complete, why isn't Christ here as yet? Do the scriptures tell us that Christ is our High Priest in heaven doing work? Is the process of being a High Priest necessary for our salvation that was already completed? What do the ritual ceremonies say about this process? In the rituals, are the people to just slay the lamb, walk home and that is all there is to it? That's why I can say with surety that there is no interpretation so complete and satisfying as is the Adventist interpretation. People can use every means of human sizzle and feeling in order to cover up the truth by saying, "CHRIST'S DEATH IS COMPLETE SALVATION!" It sounds good and give the impression that someone is really in love with Christ. But what does scripture say? Scripture does say that Christ's sacrifice is complete, meaning that it is finished and abundantly sufficient. But does that mean that the ATONEMENT has been completed? The scriptures have shown us the breadth of the atonement from beginning to end. That atonement ends when the High Priest in heaven throws down His censer containing the prayers of the saints that are before God the Father. Christ is there presenting His sacrifice before His Father and engaging in a work of JUDGMENT. No Christian will cut out such an important work in the process of salvation that has been repeated over and over again in the scriptures. The scriptures show us that there is a judgment. What is being used here is charisma and human feeling in order to noise out these truths. Christ said at His death: "It is finished." But the scriptures did not there say exactly what is finished. Now is time for people to fill in the blanks even though the scriptures have shown us all the elements necessary for the atonement from the first entrance into the outer court where the Lamb was slain, down to where the High Priest throws down His censer at the end of judgment. There is in the Revelation mention of the Laodicean Church. That word Laodicea means, "The judging of the people." If you ever asked yourselves why Christ is not here now with His Saints, please don't come to the conclusion that it is because His Saints did not get a sprinkle a day to keep the odor away! Understand that you are not being told the truth about these issues regarding the plan of salvation. The sacrifice of the atonement is completed at the cross, but the entire plan of salvation is NOT complete. Things go the same even now as in the Old Testament. Moses was able to talk to God "face to face" during times when some are telling us that the plan of salvation was not complete. Now that some tell us that it is complete, we have no such a person who can speak to God face to face as did Moses. The plan of salvation will be complete when the Saints are saved and reconciled to God therefore BEING WITH HIM. It goes like this: Adam sinned. There is a separation. The plan of salvation is then put into operation for the entire human race. When is that plan of salvation finished? It is finished when everything has been restored to the way it was with human beings being reconciled to God and in paradise! That is the commonsense of the Saints. In His Grace, Susan Williams   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

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